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Titus breaks down in court - Ryan with graying hair

From KVBC.com in Las Vegas…

crying craig

gray kelly

The murder case involving bodybuilders Craig Titus and Kelly Ryan has gained nationwide attention. In a court appearance Tuesday, Titus appeared to be overcome by emotion while lawyers argued over who would represent Ryan, his wife, during the upcoming trial.

Ryan was attempting to dump her current lawyer, and replace him with an attorney who is partners with the attorney that already represents Titus; Tuesday afternoon, the judge made her ruling.

Throughout the hearing, Titus dabbed his eyes with a tissue and appeared to be crying. His attorney, Marc Saggese told the judge that both defendants wanted to have the same legal team and present a unified defense at the trial. Both Titus and Ryan told the judge they would waive any potential conflict this might cause.

The concern is that one of them might at some point try to save themselves by telling a different story about how Melissa James died, and how her body ended up burned inside a Jaguar in the desert.

Ultimately, the judge decided the potential conflict was too great, so for now, Ryan will not be allowed to switch lawyers. She may, however, appeal this decision to the Nevada Supreme Court.

Titus and Ryan are charged with murdering James, their personal assistant, in December of 2005. They were caught two weeks later near Boston after allegedly making plans to leave the country.

101 Responses to “Titus breaks down in court - Ryan with graying hair”

  1. darkstar Says:

    Kelly seems to be in the numb zone…maybe it is Jesus bliss…
    No matter…she will snap out of it soon enough…

    It appears that they are taking on quite the jailhouse pallor…

    Not saying that to be mean, but it is the reality of the situation…No tanning booths and hair salons in the joint…

    d*

  2. CHAINSAW Says:

    Kelly’s Botoxed lips look like shit! They looked bad before, worse now. Whoever butchered her should be in jail.

  3. FLASH Says:

    NUTHIN BUT A GAME

  4. darkstar Says:

    Chain,

    You are now the official “Simon Cowell” of the Titus Ryan board…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    d*

  5. nvizabl Says:

    It is what it is and who r we to judge. If u hav nothing nice to say about Craig or Kelly. It’s better to say nothing at all, it only makes the person saying ugly remarks LOOK BAD and all this represents HATRED & JELOUSY. No one really knows what happened and everyone needs to think about the situation at hand and put yourself in their place, no one could even imagine what Craig & Kelly r really going thru and WHAT IF THIS WERE U??? Cmon were’s ur compassion, unless u relly know the truth behind this? nvizabl

  6. Fill Banner Says:

    Craig Titus is GUILTY!!!! “Reduced to tears in court” GOOD!!!!

  7. darkstar Says:

    VOR,

    Right on the money except for the fact that Titus wont be forced to take the stand. Having said that, he very well may talk his lawyer into taking the stand voluntarily, but if he does, he may as well kiss his ass goodbye.
    Like you said, since he thinks he is always one up on everybody else, he may believe if he takes the stand he can bullshit his way out of this jam…

    Not likely.

    As for you, nvizabl, maybe you should step into MJ’s shoes…the physical and circumstantial evidence against them is voluminous…

    d*

  8. InsiderX Says:

    Does anybody know a link that I can go to listen to all of the Nelson Brady, Craig Titus, and Deen Cassim tapes. That one link only has 12. Is there another link with the rest of the over 100. Thanks.

  9. Jason G Says:

    I do not believe that there is such a link. There has been a lot of talk about the 100 + recorded calls, however, no link at this time. Glen Pruit from the Las Vegas Review Journal reported the 100+ calls and posted only 12. He may have the rest and posted only what he thaught to be most important to the case.

    IF Brady is proven innocent the defence will be able to use this plot to “suggest” that it was created by the prosecution as a diversion to convict Titus.

    IF Brady is proven guilty, the prosecution will be able to use this scheme to “suggest” that Titus is guilty because he tried to have witnesses killed. The police and the DA are hero’s for saving their lives.

    ENTRAPMENT: (There is much more) The government may use undercover agents to enforce the law; neverthe less, undercover agents may “NOT” originate a criminal design, implant in an (otherwise) innocent person’s mind the disposition to commit a criminal act, and then induce commission of the crime so that the government may prosecute.

    Brady bears the burden of producing evidence of governmental instigation. IF Brady can prove that, the government will have to prove that Brady was predisposed to commit the crime.

    Federal law precludes law enforcement (and or their agent) from being on both sids of the deal. ie; Instigating the phone calls, inducement, threats, encouragement, reluctance of the party, who first suggested the criminal activity, etc, and all of this so that the government may prosecute Brady.
    “By on both ends” it is ment that the POLICE and their agent, Cassim, telephoned Brady, encouraged the arrangements and then arrested him on the other end. Thus, police on each end.

    I am not saying this is all a fact, except the law. I am only suggesting a scenario that may have taken place. IF, (yes a lot of if’s), this did occure, I believe that it will change the course of the Titus trial.

    And now I am on my way out to become an “attorney stalker”. Something about Denue is bothering me. I just need to know that it is, nothing.

  10. InsiderX Says:

    Thank you Jason G. If you do get a link please post it. I e-mailed glenn puit but I have not got a response yet.

  11. chainsaw Says:

    Looks like CT shaved. Looks better.

  12. darkstar Says:

    Jason,

    If Brady is found guilty, I still do not see how that can be used by the prosecution to help prove Titus’ guilt in the murder of MJ. I would bet that if they try to use a Brady conviction for such purposes, it will not be allowed in on the basis of it being highly prejudicial against Titus. The concept is whether it is more probative than prejudicial…If Titus had also been charged with the plot, then there might be a better chance of getting it in. Since he has not been charged, I think it has a slim to none chance of coming in, and slim just left town.

    If Brady is found “not guilty” (not innocent), the defense will have to lay a huge foundation in order to use that to help Titus…They cannot merely suggest..the judge will demand evidentiary support for the defense premise that Titus was sandbagged by the DA and Metro…On the contrary, the DA will counter that it is irrelevant and where are the charges against CT in the plot?

    By the way, can you reference where you are getting your law from, eg, some particular Fed statute, or caselaw…that would be helpful in understanding how you are fitting the pieces together in your theory.

    d*

  13. KNEW THEM Says:

    Guys: All the bs distractions aren’t going to mean shit when CT n KR go to trial. Saggese already said “CT is guilty of a bad decision(meaning at LEAST burning a body). I still say he comes out smelling like a rose and gets 10 to 15 yrs. Oh, and Kel too.

  14. HO$$ Says:

    Is it just me or does CT have the longest bonyest protruding elbow you’ve ever seen…

    …Must be the HGH.

    -I don’t completely understand why he was sobbing like a bitch in court…

    I mean if the can’t get crystal meth - I mean Cristalli - can’t they get the next best thing - some attorney that’s going to act and present Kelly’s case the way
    Craig(and Kelly) want it presented..

    I respect Denue for what he’s said and written - particularly his criticism of CT, but shldnt an atty do what their client(KR in this case) asks them to do?

  15. Disgusted Says:

    Sorry Knew Them but you’re still living in a fantasy world like Craig who is showing signs of painfully realizing the reality of it all.

    nvizabl: It amazes me that people continuously accuse others of being jealous of Craig and Kelly. Jealous of what? Two lives in the toilet with no possibilty of recovering? Think again. It’s not where you were rather it’s where you are, right here right now.

    The judges made a wise decision to avoid a possible conflict. It’s also pointless to appeal this decision to the State Supreme Court. It’s only going to delay the inevitable which is life without parole or capital punishment. Inquiring minds can wait.

  16. KNEW THEM Says:

    Disgusted: We shall see…but he was just one of those people who always seemed to come out better than he should have. I only live in a fantasy world part-time. Thanks

  17. Tiger818 Says:

    CT Guilty???????? Did the Trial start????? I must have missed it. Anyone find a # for Dunue???

  18. Banner Says:

    Hey, Tiger818 Are you a NUT? Craig Titus is GUILTY!!!! Craig and Kelly are GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!! GUILTY!!!!

  19. Amy Says:

    Craig Titus needs a few good old roids up his ass. CT is starting to look weak and pasty. CT is GUILTY!!!!

  20. titussi Says:

    I want to make one thing perfectly clear and publicly known: Craig Titus is my absolute hero! He will allways be and frankly I don’t give a fuck wether he’s guilty or not of this or that or whatever bla bla bla. I just hope that he will soon be liberated and that a huge statue will be built in his honour and to commemorate his fantastic achievements. The people of America should know that I would be more than HAPPY TO DIE FOR CRAIG TITUS!!

  21. SHAME Says:

    bu ba ba ba bu ba bu

  22. KNEW THEM Says:

    Who gives a shit about contacting Denue. Kelly ditched him because he said the best he could do for her was get her out of jail before she dies. What client in his or her right mind would begin a trial with that option? I have never given 2 cents to any lawyer that hasn’t told me SOMETHING positive. Something besides, “well, I’ll get you say abouttt 50years”. Come on all my fellow convicted felon co-writers; Kelly might as well just plead guilty to murder if that is the best Denue thinks he can do.

  23. Mr. L Says:

    I love the fact that this clown is sobbing like a little bitch in the court room…maybe he should have thought about his actions before this all happened. One question I have for this moron is why would you burn her body in YOUR car?? That might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard..Cant wait to see this story on City confidential.. what an ass clown!!LOL!! HAHAHAHA! like most cases like this, Craig will get the chair(well deserved) and kelly will get about 20 years.

  24. Dr. Mark Says:

    Sorry to disappoint you Mr. L. but there’s no way CT will get the chair. Even if he’s convicted of murder, there’s just too much uncertainty about the cause of death for the death penalty. You might be right about Kelly, though.

  25. lsw Says:

    Nothing ages you faster than time in the pen.

  26. InsiderX Says:

    Who would win in a fight… Craig Titus or Phil Baroni??? I think Titus would taser him, inject him with morphine, duct tape him up, put blankets around him, put him in the trunk of his car, drive out to the desert, and set the car on fire…. I guess Titus would win?

  27. darkstar Says:

    Dr Mark,

    I agree CTwont get the death penalty, but not because of the lack of certainty over the cause of death.

    If you recall, Scott Peterson got the death penalty in California for the murder of Laci, and the cause of death in that case was not verified to a certainty either.

    CT wont get the DP because the DA likely wont seek it.

    d*

  28. HO$$ Says:

    I’m unclear.

    Is the death penalty even possible in Las Vegas?

  29. Timber Says:

    What goes around comes around…goes back around

  30. Dr. P Says:

    You all judge Titus…do you think it’s easy being a sociopath…do you think it’s easy walking around with total disregard for your fellow man…of course it is… Until you get punched in the neck by your own wreckless actions and can only wallow in your self pity…
    What strikes me is how both CT and KR have not shed a single tear of regret or shame or remorse for what they’ve already confessed to - they only cry for themselves…actually regret in as much as it’s affected their lives - but nothing for what MJ suffered…

  31. darkstar Says:

    Hoss,

    Nevada has a death penalty. They dont use it much and dont execute many…But they do have it.

    d*

  32. HO$$ Says:

    D*:

    So why wouldn’t the D.A. at least try for the death penalty.

    Because even in a worse case scenario in terms of how heinous the crime was - it wasn’t premeditated?

  33. darkstar Says:

    Hoss,

    I am pretty sure they are being charged with premeditated murder. Im not sure what they call it in Nevada.

    Whether the DA chooses to seek the death penalty depends on a lot of factors, one being deciding whether a jury in the penalty phase would choose it over life, for example…

    I think sometimes the DP is a bit tough for juries and the public to swallow, so they might feel that getting a life without parole is more palatable…

    Rotting in prison for the rest of ones life isnt too pretty either…

    I dont know if the DA has even said yet what he has decided to go for in this case…My guess is if he gets a conviction, it will be life no parole.

    d*

  34. wayne mortensen Says:

    Since I have been reading this board, I have seen people writing in that CT is more culpable than KR and vice versa. Some of you think CT will get life and KR will get 20 years, etc. etc. etc. Who is more culpable in this matter? It seems to me that KR is more culpable than CT. They have more evidence on her than CT and I just wonder why people think he has a greater blame in this. Just because he is a man and she look maidenly in court with her granny glasses and gray hair. In my opionion, she is a greater transgressor in this case.

  35. darkstar Says:

    It would seem to me that what one gets, the other gets…they are being tried jointly on the same exact charges…

    I think there are a certain percentage here that do have CT or KR being more guilty than the other, but in reality, I think they are going to end up being convicted or acquitted as one.

    If they were having separate trials, the outcome might be completely different, but since they are being tried together, I think the state will make them out to be equally culpable.

    d*

  36. HGH? Says:

    Is Titus’s elbow elongation a result of heavy HGH use? Take a look at the picture.

  37. Disgusted Says:

    Dr P is right on the mark when he said they have not displayed a shred of remorse other than for being captured while attempting to leave the country. It’s all about them.

  38. Gym Rat (drug free) Says:

    What happened to Craig’s Lompoc cell bitch who promised half revenue of sales on his book to Craig’s defense? Did he contract HIV during his ‘happy days’ in the slammer with Craig?

  39. Platter (rectangular) Says:

    Some thoughts:

    The fact that Kelly Ryan has, from day one, refused to “rat out” Craig Titus indicates that she is as much “guilty” as he is of whatever happened in december 2005. These two sticking together means that they feel that “they are in this together”. As heinous as the acts of (supposedly) killing MJ and (alledgedly) disposing of her body are, the fact that they stick together and refuse to roll over on the other in the hope of getting a deal is remarkable and deserves some respect in my opinion.

    What did these two together in december 2005? What did really happen?

    What might have happened is something like a discussion, a confrontation (Kelly confronting Melissa for example) that went quickly out of hands and that resulted in the death of Melissa James, Kelly sollicitating the help of Craig during the fight. Either the final outcome (death of MJ) was unintentional (an “accident”), or the idea of “getting rid of her” developped after an initial confrontation. I think that Kelly Ryan was more of a driving force behind all this than Craig Titus. She thought of Melissa as a rival, freaked out a lot and developped a strong paranoïa against Melissa James during the final days of Melissa’s life. I don’t see Craig Titus as a cold-blooded murderer with premeditation. He seems to be someone who acts first and thinks afterwards. The heavy drug use of the three invoved undoubtly played a major role in all this mess.

  40. Disgusted Says:

    The fact that two murderers don’t rat each other out is no reason to respect them.

  41. darkstar Says:

    Im with you on that one, disgusted…

    I dont know who is more culpable, but I dont think it matters. What ever is said at the trial will apply to both of them.

    I think Denue was right to try and separate Kelly from Craig, from a defensive strategy standpoint…Now, it appears that unless one of them cracks and spills the beans, they will take their lumps as one…

    Platter, I dont think there is any “allegedly” whatsoever about them disposing of the body…I frankly dont think a jury will buy their story either, that MJ od’d, they panicked, so decided to tape her up, put her in the car’s trunk and take the car out and burn it…to preserve their reputations….total bullshit.

    But, this has a long way to go…

    d*

  42. chainsaw Says:

    I’m gonna say this again….

    CT tried to get MJ away from KR by getting her a hotel room.

    I do understand that premeditation could have happened from the time he picked her up till they got to CT’s and KR’s house, but actions really do speak louder than words.

    Had he not burned the body like an idiot, KR might be the only one in jail.

  43. chainsaw Says:

    What I’m really tryin to do is play devils advocate here. Everyone (many anyways) don’t seem to like CT and think he was the driving force behind this. I disagree… I think CT was trying to play hero to KR by covering it up.

  44. darkstar Says:

    To get her away from KR, or…..
    maybe have a little horizontal bop, smoke a little dope, whatever….remember, CT and MJ apparently had a fling a few years back…and he DID stay most of the night there….and apparently the Titus’es had a pretty “flexible” marriage….
    But we wont likely ever know what happened that night, because the only people who know, who were actually there, well, one is dead and the other has no obligation to testify whatsoever….

    But they did leave a trail of evidence, and you are right, actions speak louder than words….they ran like they had something to hide….equally culpable…it cant be any other way, because once they start to point fingers, the whole thing will blow up…and then maybe you will see some dealin’…

    Wouldnt want to be them….

    d*

  45. Venice Says:

    HGH(aka bullshit alias):

    Someone pointed out Titus’ elongated elbow a long (pun intended) time ago.

    Chain:

    You are the voice of reason on this site…My gut feeling …and my gut feeling has changed several times - not that it matters - but I think Titus is a total sociopath that sucked Kelly into a lifestyle and situation had she not taken a detour with him in her life - having said that she seems to be a chamelion type - she molded herself into being what CT wanted - and in doing so she might actually be more culpable than Titus - it may be poetic justic for their fates to be linked - I’m shooting from the hip we all are - who really knows.

  46. InsiderX Says:

    The only thing Titus’s lawyer (Saggese) has to have an explanation for is the Taser… he can discredit all the witnesses because it seems like they have a lot of baggage…. burning up the car they can say they were scared and didn’t know what to do… and Craig just has to get up on the stand and cry and tell everybody he’s sorry for burning up the body but that does not make him a murdered… the taser I don’t know how to come up with an excuse for that maybe like.. What excuse can they use for discharing a taser 6 plus times in two minutes… I don’t know that is what is going to put them away for a long time

  47. Venice Says:

    Insider:

    I agree with you.

    Not that I think that’s what happened - buit that I think it could make a jury pause - to a point where it creates reasonable doubt.

    As for the taser.

    As someone previously pointed out (chain?)

    The taser cld have been used as adefibulator - even if it had no chance of sucess one cld argue that that’s wht they were trying to do…

  48. Disgusted Says:

    Chain, your heart may be in the right place but your head that is supposed to retain logical thought is the issue here. Your statement that ‘many here don’t seem to like Craig’ present him as the victim which is wrong.

    Craig killed, disposed of evidence, hid at his renter’s home, switched vehicles, fled the state, attempted to liquidate assests, obtain passage to Greece hence flee the country to another without an extradition treaty with the US. His loving wife went along voluntarily.

    What’s not to like?

  49. Jason G Says:

    I’ll try to make this short, you all know how I like to e-x-p-l-a-i-n my thoughts.

    I heard that the taser had been used for target practice, by all three, on a large kick/punching bag hanging from one of the ceilings in a bedroom at the time of the recorded discharge.

    The laws on “Entrapment” I have been quoting are from a book entitled “Modern Criminal Procedure” chapter 8, pages 502 - 540, “Police Encouragement and Entrapment.” The publisher is Tompson/West. You can also see the (Thompson/FindLaw) same verbiage and much more at FindLaw.com. The link for this is www.findlaw.com then go to criminal and search for “entrapment” or anything you wish to research and at no charge.

    Another free website is called “Blackstone” which record Clark County Nevada court cases. You can follow all criminal cases at this site.

    Brady has now been indicted by the Clark County Grand Jury. He had been scheduled for his preliminary trial/hearing this Wednesday March 7, 2006. The DA asked to have his bail raised from $150,000 up to $450,000. As I said two weeks ago, DA Daskas will make every attempt possible do delay Brady from telling in open court everything relating to how he was set-up in this murder-for-hire scheme by the police and DA. This is all tied into the Titus/Ryan case. The DA will do everything in his power to delay the Brady case until AFTER the Titus/Ryan case goes to trial. Why do YOU think the DA took this to the Grand Jury instead of to this Wednesday’s preliminary trial?? At a trial it would have undoubtly come to a conclusion at a faster rate than delaying the pre-trial by skipping it altogether. Why??

  50. Platter (rectangular) Says:

    Insider:
    I don’t think the most incriminationg piece of evidence in this case is the taser. It could possibly have been used in an attempt to bring someone back to life after an overdose. The most incriminating piece in this case is the duct tape. Why duct-taping someone’s entire face?

    By the way, I don’t know if it will be that easy for Saggese to discredit ALL the witnesses in this case. If you read Glenn Puit’s book, then you will see that there are more witnesses than Megan Foley, her husband and Many Polk. There are also Jeffrey Schwimmer and Patrick Glenn Franks who told the Police that Craig and/or Kelly talked to them about Melissa having been killed by them, one of these witnesses pointing out that Kelly said something like “good that Melissa is dead, I got her before she got me”

  51. Banner Says:

    Is Titus’s elbow elongation a result of heavy jailhouse masturbation? CT is looking weak and pasty. CT is GUILTY!!!!

  52. darkstar Says:

    Hey Jason,

    Looks like you been busy, ya crazy researchin’ maniac!! (kidding)

    Whats this about “you heard” the taser was used for target practice? C’mon, you cant be serious. What credibility can that possibly have? When they bring it up in court and testify to it, I’ll believe it…Dont misunderstand, I am not slagging off on you. Its just that it is complete hearsay. You know better.

    Now, about the entrapment stuff…It sounds like you are referencing a casebook, ( I personally have the 8th edition of Kamisar/LaFave/Israel, Modern Criminal Procedure) which quite frankly is about 10 years old now.

    We wont know until the facts are argued at the Brady trial whether the police overstepped, or if Brady was predisposed, etc, etc, etc…and what sort of argument Brady’s defense will put up, and on what grounds, due process, yada yada…

    You could turn out to be right, this could be a case of entrapment, and that is Bradys defense that walks him out. I am more inclined to wait for the facts to be argued and see what arguments are made.

    You might want to see Jacobson v. United States, or United States v. Kelly for contrast…

    d*

  53. Venice Says:

    Does anyone have any information on how much Titus’ elbow has grown since his last court appearance?

    Much appreciated,

    V

  54. darkstar Says:

    2.7 millimeters.

    d*

  55. shockandawe Says:

    Okay…
    Elongated elbows, tasers bringing people back to life and being fired at heavy bags????

    C’mon people!

    These are not the things to focus on here. The focus is, these two are NOT rolling over on one another, and that is NEITHER ADMIRABLE, nor indicative of who is most guilty. Kelly has been stupid in this relationship from the start - anyone who “Knew her when” knows this is so.

    Though I do happen to believe it was Kelly’s rage gone awry, I also think she pulled Craig in by anointing him with her many theories of conspiracy, theft and bamboozling - she wanted him to believe Melissa was bad, but guess why? Umm….Titus was fucking another woman, that he had a relationship with, not some hooker on the street or a strip club conquest - a woman whom they both knew and took in.

    Look, they both killed a girl who was an unfortunate addict, who was fucking Craig and needed rehab. These two were about as far down the totem pole as you can get themselves and something bad was bound to happen. If they hadn’t killed Melissa that night, I believe one of them would have OD’d, robbed a convenience store once lack of money, and all that they had lost, actually sunk in, and they were desperate.

    I’ve known Craig for a VERY long time. I’ve known Kelly a long time too, but not quite as long. But romanticizing either as the HERO in the other’s life is just a bunch of bullshit. Sorry. Both had rage issues, insecurities, and long-standing drug issues well before either hooked up with the other.

    They are going down no matter who their attorneys are, and they are going down hard. Love it or hate it, it’s what’s going to happen. All of this entrapment and intrigue is just garden variety subterfuge.

  56. chainsaw Says:

    Venice: I think you are right on. My theories have changed quite a bit as well, speculating is what we are all here for.

    Disgusted: I don’t want to say that CT didn’t give everyone that knew him reason to not like him, I don’t know him and had run into Kelly at Golds. As I have previously stated, I was disappointed in her, she seemed white trashy, probably due to as someone previously stated hooking up with CT. I meant no disrespect, if I knew them, I would be able to maybe, make a better appraisal.

    Shock: I agree with you as well on many points.

    I think that maybe when faced with the fact that they have no money for an attorney, and faced with a public defender, they will cop, and be offered a 2nd degree murder charge and take it.

  57. chainsaw Says:

    By the way, I don’t think that is CT’s elbow, it is and extremely bottom lower tricep or reverse bicep..

  58. Venice Says:

    Shockandawe:

    Titus’ elongated elbow is central to this case.

    Secondly, and perhaps more relevantly…that Ann Coulters is a real bitch, isn’t she?

  59. darkstar Says:

    Shock,

    Right on the money…all those peripheral shenanigans are exactly like you said…subterfuge…
    I have to say I did get a laff when I read that the taser might have been used as a defib when they “found MJ OD’d…”Or that they were practicing shooting it into a punching bag or whatever…hilarious….and ridiculous…

    The entrapment thing, well that will be Brady’s only defense. I think he was predisposed to conspire, and I dont think cassim had to do much arm twisting….

    Chain,

    You may be right about them trying to deal when they cant pay their private attorney, and end up with the public defender…I would guess their current lawyers will be withdrawing soon for lack of payment…BUT I am betting they wont get offered a second degree plea…I dont think the DA will offer it.

    d*

  60. Venice Says:

    If one positive thing can come out of this whole trial maybe Deem Cassim’s girlfriend and Dennis Bates can get together and start the perfect family.

  61. KNEW THEM Says:

    The elbow comments are very irritating; it’s from not training the muscle that makes up 2/3’s of the arm. 1 plus years….I know what that looks like; unfortunitly, mine are the same way.

  62. Scorcese Says:

    Titus’ elongated elbow is this generations Pinochio’s nose.

  63. Scorcese Says:

    Knew them:

    Why would not training your triceps make ur elbow stick out like so….

    That sounds like an article I read - interviewing Dave Palumbo… Saying that bb’s got distended bellies, because the muscle had nowhere to go…sure I’ve seen 60 year old dudes 1/10 the side of pro bb’s with distended bellies - it’s called a side effect..

    …No question Titus’ body is disentegrating as we speak, but his elongated elbows are an HGH side effect.

    - I mean no personal offense towards you.

    Please do not take it that way.

  64. Promises Says:

    Knewthem;

    Maybe you should consider group therapy with others who have experienced elongated elbows.

  65. E.E.S.O.N.A. (Elongated Elbow Society of North America) Says:

    People should not be mocked or denigrated for the length of their elbows.

  66. InsiderX Says:

    Ok like I have never heard of the taser being used as CPR…. Like Glenn Puit said… take away the celebrity, take away all the excuses, all the crazy stories… Craig and KR were smoking (meth) got tweeked out and something went horribly wrong and a young promising girl is dead… that’s the bottom line and all the evidence points to them… If Saggese wants to get up there and treat the jurors like a bunch of idiots than he’ll say the taser was being used to resuscitate Melissa…. Apply common sense and it was one of them… I don’t think it’s Craig because he would of used his bare hands to murder her… it points to Kelly… I think Craig was involved but not the actual murdered… it points to Kelly… everybody wants to come up with all these ridiculous stories.. it comes down to who actually murdered her..

  67. chainsaw Says:

    You never never know everyone… Some excuses that may be used are that they used the taser as a defibulator, or that MJ passed out and they tried to wake her up with it, or did anyone ever think of this, Maybe MJ did freak out on KR when she confronted her and Kelly used it as a defensive weapon? I really don’t know, one witness did say that MJ had it and KR took it away from her.

    One thing that I find hard to believe though is this, MJ did have chicken and rice in her stomach. I don’t know really anyone who eats when they are on Meth or Heroine. That is when they are under the influence of course when they are not, they do eat usaually like pigs. So, to say MJ was loaded or High, I don’t know how much I believe that.

  68. darkstar Says:

    What’s so hard to believe about that, Chain? The last anyone (besides CT and KR) heard from MJ, she was apparently at a KFC and asked whoever was with her if they wanted anything…

    The idea that she or they later got high or not, or that she had chicken and rice in her, is not hard to believe.

    Using the taser as a defib is not hard to believe: it is simply ridiculous. MJ was tased so KR and CT could beat her, snuff her, and make up a completely untenable story.

    InsiderX is right…if Saggese treats the jury like idiots, this will be over early…
    That is, if he is still CTs attorney by the time the trial comes around…

    d*

  69. chainsaw Says:

    d*

    With a lethal amount of Heroin in her system (that has been proven) she should have thrown up that rice and chicken, unless she passed out right away. Also, there was no broken bones found on MJ. Also, in the GJ transcripts witnesses said CT did burn the body to make it LOOK like a rape. So the duct tape and the pants pulled down around the buttocks does not suprise me. The Taser being used as a defib does make sense for the fact that the taser dots were found where KR said she found the body, as well as down stairs. The dots could have been tracked downstairs or upstairs though too. The defense will argue that.

    Jason: I agree, Daskas is sneaky. I think we all agree with that. Its too bad that his sneakyness could come back to haunt him if a murder did actually take place.

  70. KNEW THEM Says:

    Craig also had bone spurs in his elbows and don’t forget that steroids are are a very powerful anti-inflamatory. Also, no bber uses HGH(human growth hormone derived from cadavers anymore!). Enogh with the elbows…what the eff is this a review for America’s next top model. Just another thought: If I had a taser, I would definitly fire it a few times to know how it works and dont you have to reload them before every shot?

  71. darkstar Says:

    Chain,

    First, NOTHING has been PROVEN yet…

    I dont recall the GJT saying the amount of morphine in her body was “lethal”…”a large amount” was what I recall…and in any event that issue will have to be testified and haggled over to the nth degree….

    I want to be accurate, so point me to the passage in the transcript.

    Secondly, it is complete speculation that MJ “would have thrown up” if she had ingested a large amount of heroin…I mean, if she was the addict many people speculate she was, her tolerance for the drug could be way high…

    Then again, if she was not, then a load of pharmaceutical morphine, stuck in her by CT or KR, could have knocked her out very quickly…that, or the alleged subsequent pummelling by KR…

    Im not sure what the relevance of MJ having no broken bones is…You dont have to break bones to kill someone…

    That taser argument, that is the stretch of the century…if that is all they got, they are done…

    I have a question…why did CT have the taser gun purchased for him, and more importantly, for what purpose did CT need a taser? And, why did CT have Jeremy hide the taser for him? If they were in fact using the taser as a defib device, why hide it? Why not say “we did what we could to save her but she didnt make it??”

    Its just total bullshit. Running to Massachusetts, hiding the taser, trying to burn the body…I’ll go out on a limb…that isnt bad judgment…that is evidence of a guilty mind…

    Not trying to be contrary, but if what you are saying is what they are basing their exculpation on, they are going to be very disappointed.

    d*

  72. KNEW THEM Says:

    Kelly’s only sticking with Craig because she’s the guilty one. Craig put MJ up in a hotel and paid for her plane ticket home. As far as he was concerned, she was gone in a day or two. What reason(a jury would like to know) did Craig have to kill her? Once again I say what Sagasse said and that he’s guilty of bad judgement. His bad decisions for trying to help his wife will cost him 10 to 15 for arson/desecration of a human body, but we will never see Kelly again. I’m glad she found God. Anyone know LVNevada law well? If the jury tells the judge that they believe it was not 1st degree murder, but say something lesser like manslaughter.. and at the end of the trial all 12 believe the 1st degree charge brought by the DA was wrong, and can’t convict on that. Can a jury ask a judge if they can convict on a charge that the DA has not even brought against CT and KR?

  73. chainsaw Says:

    d*

    Reread the GJ transcripts. The medical examiner said it specifically was a lethat dose of monecetyl morphine which is ONLY a heroin byproduct, period. Not of pharmaceutical grade morphine. CT only got the taser purchase cause he was a convicted felon PERIOD.. Not to torture, or some other reason… He did not say it was a defib device cause, it is not logical to do (when you are sober). Belive me, MJ would have thrown up with that amount of H in her. Anyone would…. Ever seen a fat H addict.. IE sid vicious? I haven’t.

    Knew them:

    KR did have more to do with it, I’m sure of that. The evidence clearly points to that. What did CT do besides cover? How could KR do it with no broken bones? Not even bones in the neck broken from strangulation?

  74. KNEW THEM Says:

    Hey Chain: That’s what I have been wondering. There is a certain bone in I think the back of the neck that breaks when you are strangled; was this bone broken in MJ? I have never heard any talk about it in this case.

  75. darkstar Says:

    Chain,

    All I am saying is that I think you are drawing some conlusions that are more emotional than factual.

    We havent seen or heard the bulk of the evidence yet…the GJ transcripts are only a small glimmer of what the DA will have to prove.

    We are all being somewhat presumptuous as to what happened, and the theories being discussed here are entertaining but we will all likely be surprised at what actually happens during the trial.

    d*

  76. Platter (rectangular) Says:

    Kelly sticking with Craig means she is at least as guilty of the act of killing MJ as he is.

    Craig not ratting out Kelly means either that he participated in the actual killing (which makes him equally guilty) or that he didn’t participate in the killing but UP TO NOW feels obliged to stick with his wife for some reason. It could be his feeling that this tragedy is “all his fault” (he brought MJ to their home and betrayed Kelly with her, which made Kelly freak out) and the fact that he wanted to play hero for Kelly (by burning the body in their car, making it look like something like a rape) and noticing afterwards that this was an extremely stupid idea that didn’t help them in any way but made their situation much worse.

  77. Chainsaw Says:

    d*

    Unfortunately the GJ transcrips are all we have to go on now..
    I’m not emotionally involved in this at all, I just look at the evidence
    we have at this time. When more comes out, my opinion may change to
    either side. I’m not really partial. The coin has 2 sides.

  78. darkstar Says:

    Chain,

    I hear you…I just wish the damn trial would begin so we can get to the real drama…

    d*

  79. Chainsaw Says:

    I’m wondering if the LVMP had scanned CT’s elbow to see if he is hiding something in there. Now that could warrent an extraction from his cell, and a strip and cavity search!

  80. KNEW THEM Says:

    Does anyone know if a jury can ask a judge(in Nevada) if they can convict of a lesser charge that has not been brought by the DA? I don’t think they are going to be 12-0 on the first degree murder charge, but a manslaughter charge yes 12-0. What is the max. on that in Nevada?

  81. darkstar Says:

    The jury typically cannot ask, but the judge may instruct, at the end of the trial, when giving the jury their instructions before heading off to the jury room to deliberate, on lesser findings, like instead of first degree murder, they could find second degree murder, etc…or maybe manslaughter…but CT / KR will have to overcome the presumption of malice which is inferred in all homicides. They can do this by showing MJ provoked them, or maybe that it was a mutual fight they were in…something like that…

    No idea what the sentencing guidelines are…

    d*

  82. KNEW THEM Says:

    D* Thanks, I think the jury will not be 12-0 on 1st degree murder….What say U?

  83. Chainsaw Says:

    I Still think they will plea to 2nd degree murder. That means that they didn’t plan ahead on killing MJ. For instance If they were all shooting dope, and she OD’d that could be 2nd degree , if they supplied the drugs to MJ.

    Or if there was a fight, and they (accidentally) killed MJ, that (could) be second degree depending on the circumstances.

    Knew Them: I don’t know, I think a jury will convict, depending on what the judge allows in the trial. From the looks of it, she will allow everything. This trial wont start till next year I bet.

  84. darkstar Says:

    Knew Them,

    Impossible to say what a jury will do. We will just have to wait and see what happens during the trial, and what evidence is presented that we havent heard yet. Remember the Binion jury convicted of first degree murder on very shaky evidence…and the retrial jury acquitted…Juries are unpredictable…

    Chain,

    They cant simply plead to 2nd degree murder. Either a deal has to be offered to them that they agree to, or the judge gives the jury the option to find a lesser charge, second degree instead of first, for example. Also, it is not necessarily true that if they are all sitting around doing dope that CT/KR supplied, and MJ OD’s that isnt a lock for second degree murder…If they intended her to OD, and planned to that end, it could be first degree…but it could also be involuntary manslaughter…no intent to kill, but where the death is due to recklessness or criminal negligence.

    If they were fighting, or if there was provocation, then voluntary manslaughter could be found…further, an accident is not second degree muder, period.

    It all depends on the specific facts that are testified to at the trial that the jury has to to work with.

    Not to be persnickety, but I do not think we know anything about what this judge will allow in or not, or for what side…It depends completely on the arguments made by the attorneys on a particular issue of law at the time. She cannot simply allow in evidence or testimony without a legal foundation.

    d*

  85. Chainsaw Says:

    If an O.D occured while having injesting an illegal substance, I believe it is second degree. You are thinkin of vehicular manslaughter I think.

    I believe the DA will offer 2nd degree with at least 20 for both.

  86. darkstar Says:

    Chain,
    Nope, dont think so on your definition.
    Also, the DA might offer 2nd, but not till later… I think if that happens, the trial will have progressed to the point where murder can or has been proved, but not the level…then the DA may say, look, one way or the other, we got you on murder, its just a matter of whether you want to gamble with what the jury comes back with. I’ll offer you second degree, etc., on that count right now, etc..etc…

    Second degree murder is an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in the heat of passion…or, a killing caused by the offender’s dangerous conduct and the obvious lack of concern for human life…

    Involuntary manslaughter can be similar to your example of vehicular manslaughter, the keys being that the victims death is unintended, and is caused by recklessness…I suppose supplying dangerous drugs to someone who then dies is reckless…but I doubt it rises to the level of second degree murder, although I suppose it could happen…

    Again, it will come down to how they argue the facts…

    d*

  87. Chainsaw Says:

    d*

    You sound about right on all of that. I was generally close I reckon.

  88. shockandawe Says:

    D,
    Reckon either makes you a hick, or an Englishman. Which is it?
    ;) Shock

  89. darkstar Says:

    Shock,

    I wouldnt know. Chain said it, not me.

    d*

  90. Chainsaw Says:

    Shock and d*

    With a name like Chainsaw, you can probably figure out which one it is. A hint, I would not touch marmite!

  91. darkstar Says:

    C’mon Chain…Marmite is fantastic, mate!

    d*

  92. Chainsaw Says:

    Listen,

    Just came to my attention. Don’t you think CT was maybe cryin in the courtroom because of the previous devilish wave picture to KR in the blog/article preceding this one? Think Saggase brought that up to him and showed him that picture?

  93. shockandawe Says:

    when is this friggin trial starting?

  94. larry Says:

    why would a dead person have to be duct taped. Titus will get his in a jail cell bent over.

  95. BEACHBANGER Says:

    I can’t wait untill these two are sentenced for the awful crime they committed. Court tv, anyone?

  96. KNEW THEM Says:

    I think Court TV said they were going to pick it up.

  97. Strangerbynow Says:

    I knew CT when he was in Jr and Sr high school. He was so arrogant (mostly about himself) then that you could hardly stand him! None of this happening is a great surprise. He thought he was invincible then - why would that change, especially with fame and fortune! It’s a shame, but it is what it is. I just hope justice prevails.

  98. wayne mortensen Says:

    HEY there, does CT and KR still have their date with the judicial system? Have they postponed the trial. I have not seen anything about more delays, can anyone give us an update?

  99. related Says:

    Strangerbynow, you are so right!!!! I grew up with him, so I know exactly what you mean. I know he didnt get from his dad thats for sure.
    It had to be from his mom.

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